Software Developers Journey Podcast

#142 Lior Bar Yosef is a network analyst in a world of puzzles


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Lior Bar Yosef 0:00
Besides how much I loved the job of teaching and guiding, and I really tried to push every soldier of mine to their full potential, and challenge them so that they'll be as ready as I can prepare them for their job in the future. Besides how much I loved this job, I began understanding how much I love networking how much I love being a researcher, how it felt like a world of puzzles for me, and how much I love solving every little aspect of the job. And so, teaching others really made me understand exactly how important the job is and how much I wanted to continue this job.

Lior Bar Yosef 1:02
Hello, and welcome to developer's journey, the podcast, bringing you the making up stories of successful software developers to help you on your upcoming journey. My name is Tim Bourguignon. And on this episode of 142, I received Lior Bar Yosef. Lior served four years as a network analyst in the IDF, the Israeli Defense Force intelligence unit. Since then, she joined the industry, and has been responsible for the analysis of medical communication protocols, cyber threat management, and real time multivariable risk assessment among cyber-MDX, this analyst team. Welcome to DevJourney.

Lior Bar Yosef 1:42
Hello, shalom.

Lior Bar Yosef 1:43
Lior, the show exists, as you know, to help listeners understand what's your story looks like, and imagine how to shape their own future. So let's go back to your beginnings. Where would you place the start of your tech or developer or maybe tech journey?

Lior Bar Yosef 1:59
So I would say my journey began, in the middle school, I was planning on choosing a major for high school. And at the time, I was very focused on biology, medicine, dreaming of maybe becoming a doctor. And so I went to a open house, you can call it in the high school that I was meant to study in. And every major had different lectures. And I went to the biology lectures, and was very excited. And then I saw there was a computer science major. And out of curiosity, I decided to go listen, I'm the head of the computer science department in the high school, her name was a nut. And she gave a fascinating lecture regarding coding and the basis of computer science and how machines work, and like cetera. And she really blew my mind at that moment. And I realized that this really interests me, it's something that I had never considered earlier. And if I was really curious to learn more about this world, learn more about technology. And so at that moment, I decided to choose computer science as my high school major. Yeah, and aside from her fascinating talks about the actual technology, she was very, very, into feminism. And she talked about how there weren't enough woman in the industry and how this world is run by men in quotation marks, and how there were barely any boys in the high school major for computers, and how more women need to join and to inspire other girls to choose this major, and to become more involved in this in the technology industry in development and coding. So that also really, really inspired me and made me want to be that woman who inspired more girls to join. And so both the fascinating concept of coding and the motivation to be a role model for other girls and to be more of a feminist really inspired me to choose that as my major. And from there, I put biology to the side and went on and started coding and learned about computer science and networking. And that was really where it started.

Tim Bourguignon 4:38
I didn't know you can have such a major in high school.

Lior Bar Yosef 4:41
It depends on the school you you study in but now most of the schools have various majors art, a computer science, math, physics and biology as well. But you can add more

Tim Bourguignon 4:55
that is pretty cool. And was it some kind of real curriculum taking you from from a To be brushing over coding over networking, as you say, over and over was basically a mini computer science degree already in high school? Or how did that look like?

Lior Bar Yosef 5:11
Yes. So it started in the beginning, I learned assembly and had to write codes. I wrote a, a code of helicopter game, where in assembly and that was where it started. And from there, we continued to C sharp and Java. And we tried to go through the whole, I guess, history of the different languages. Yeah, we didn't focus a lot on operating systems and mechanical technology, it was more of the coding

Tim Bourguignon 5:49
pretty good. You said you were you were curious about how this world was this, what attracted you understanding how it works? And understanding what you could do with it? Or did you have some creative creative side that you, you needed scratching and found that like, computer science wouldn't was the correct way to do this or something else?

Lior Bar Yosef 6:07
I think what first attracted me was the curiosity. I am a very curious person in general, I am fascinated by learning how things work and what goes on behind behind the scenes at the time, I, you know, use the internet, I use my computer for basic word documents and such. And I, I really wanted to learn what goes on behind it. And I think from there that stemmed my progress through computer science, and later on becoming a network analyst. Because that also, I guess, there's I, that also makes me curious regarding to how networks work. And that was what interested me in that realm as well.

Tim Bourguignon 6:55
So let's let's go there. As far as I know, so there's a military service in Israel is two years.

Lior Bar Yosef 7:02
So the basic military service in Israel for woman at the time was two years, I decided to I served for almost four years in the intelligence force. I decided to lengthen my service, because I, I loved my job, I loved the experience that I was gaining, gaining, and the different projects that I was a part of, I wanted to continue to work and expand my knowledge. So I decided to expand my service a little bit more than what was and I guess, necessary,

Tim Bourguignon 7:42
was this deliberate decision for you to go into into the intelligence units or departments? I'm not sure what's the right of vocabulary years? or How did that happen? Did you have a choice? Do you have a chance to designed and how that looked like,

Lior Bar Yosef 8:00
so I did have a chance to decide, because of my background in computer science in my high school major, I was given a few different opportunities to different units to serve in and there are tests to see if I am, I can match a certain role in the army, different tests. And so I did many different tests for different units. And in the end, I could have decided what interested me the most. And so, I had a few different directions that I could have taken, but in the end, I did decide to join the army as a cyber analyst. That that world really fascinated me, besides the intelligence aspect of the role, I just like I mentioned earlier, I love to understand how networks work, that wasn't something that I had learned previously and I wanted to learn something new. And in general, it really felt like a puzzle from what I read online, how networks work, how the different devices connected, communicate with each other. And so I so that was that led me to the decision of choosing that role.

Tim Bourguignon 9:26
Could you describe what a network analyst in the army does? I suppose you can say what you cannot say.

Lior Bar Yosef 9:37
So unfortunately, I can't say too much of the specifics. But um, in general, I researched it, I researched how to configure different devices, how to efficiently build the network in a way that is also put texted, I learned a lot of cybersecurity terms and application. And, and such.

Tim Bourguignon 10:10
Yeah. And is this something that is typically done alone? Or is this an very huge team effort? How does that pan out?

Lior Bar Yosef 10:20
So it is usually in teams, definitely, we receive different projects that need to be completed. And we work as a team to do so. I was very fortunate to have very strong teams throughout my army service. And the teams are usually with other analysts, and we work together and sparked ideas with each other, it was a lot of teamwork. And I love that aspect of the job.

Tim Bourguignon 10:55
Where you kind of fall off, you said with other analysts, was it a team, a team of analysts? Or was it some kind of a multi, multi competency team, and you were the analyst part of it.

Lior Bar Yosef 11:08
So it depended on the project. In general, I was always part of a team of analysts, but sometimes each analyst had their own project to do. And on that project, we worked with other teams of, for, say, developers, or, or other technical people to help us out and complete the project. But we always had, I was part of a core team of analysts, and I had a commander that would oversee the different projects.

Tim Bourguignon 11:44
That's fascinating. To me, we cannot dig deeper there, but I understand. Okay, so you said you extended your your service by two years? Was there just was it two years more of the same thing? Or did you did you change direction in between you do something else? Were you able to do something else after the two those two years? Or was it more of the same with more complicated, more responsibility?

Lior Bar Yosef 12:11
So I definitely did a few different roles. I began as a network analyst. But after a while, I decided to join a course and command and teach a technical course that taught newly drafted soldiers to become network analysts themselves. So this was generally teaching in the course that I myself had gone through as a new soldier. And this was a nine month effort of very long, sleepless nights of gathering materials and building the course and teaching the students different technical information, Python, networking, and so forth. And throughout this experience of teaching it besides how much I loved the job of teaching and guiding, and I really tried to push every soldier of mine to their full potential, and challenge them so that they'll be as ready as I can prepare them for their job in the future. Besides how much I loved this job, I began understanding how much I love networking how much I love being a researcher, how it felt like a world of puzzles for me, and how much I love solving every little aspect of the job. And so teaching others really made me understand exactly how important the job is and how much I wanted to continue this job. And originally, my career path was to instruct in this army course and then go myself to a commander course and become a commander and join the leadership part of the army, go more into management, and sort of step away from the technical research job. And while I was teaching the Army Corps, I realized that I didn't want to be a commander, I wanted to continue expanding my knowledge as a researcher and do the best I can as a as an analyst. And so I decided not to go to the commander school and actually go back and, and work on a project as the lead analyst and there was a little bit of management in the job there because I was the lead analyst. I led the research and pointed the project in the direction where I wanted it to go, but I also that time of the of being elite network analyst, I think was one of the best times that shaped me who I am and shaped my technical knowledge and really sharpened my skills. And so I was completely happy with my choice there of continuing to be a network analyst and getting more responsibility and delving deeper into that technical world.

Tim Bourguignon 15:27
Why do you think that this particular period was so forming for you? Was it because of this responsibility that you had to deliver? Are you the responsibility was on you? Or the accountability was on you? Maybe? Or was it something else?

Lior Bar Yosef 15:41
So I think a lot of it was definitely the responsibility that I had as a lead analyst in the project, I was suddenly in charge of a lot of decisions. I could take the project where I wanted to go and in, and my impact was very great. And I loved that aspect. And I think also a large part of it was beforehand, I taught in the course. And I learned a lot teaching others exactly what was what I expected of a network analyst. And I was suddenly confronted with a lot of questions that I hadn't necessarily thought of before, like, how best to do the job, how, how to take charge of certain tasks and missions. And so I think that also really prepared me to take on the extra responsibility as well.

Tim Bourguignon 16:40
I'm always fascinating that whole teaching teaches you so much. Yeah. Questions you never saw coming and say, Well, I know I don't know.

Lior Bar Yosef 16:52
So much. Yeah,

Tim Bourguignon 16:53
yes, you do. I'm looking looking back on this time in the military. What do you take out of it? What really formed you besides this teaching maybe to guide you in the in the upcoming years,

Lior Bar Yosef 17:10
definitely, the knowledge and the experience that I gained, shaped who I am and led me to where I am today, taking on the job that I have currently in cyber MDX. Aside from that, I, I really think the responsibility of knowing how much you can impact a process a project really inspired me to want to continue to have this impact also, in the as a citizen in the worldwide industry. So that really focused me on where I wanted to go and what sort of rules I wanted to take on.

Tim Bourguignon 17:54
That is fascinating. These were former guests of the show, Dan Moore, who wrote a book called letters to new developers, and one of these essays in there is called, there is no adults in the room. And he speaks exactly of this, we are in charge, we are responsible, we are the ones who know where the projects are going, we make an impact, we change things, and we change lives. And for the military, probably. And so this this realization that we have this power is really both empowering on one side and maybe appalling on the other. But at some point, we have to realize that we have this power and we have to, to, to wield it and do something with it. so fascinating. Now thinking that you you are gonna step into this into the industry and go go out of the army. How did you? Did you find where you wanted to go? You spoke about research you spoke about, about finding more pieces of this puzzle? I cannot imagine that you took the first job he you found you must have been searching for a while. And furthermore, you're coming back to this bio and medical part. You spoke about the very beginning. How did you find this job and start doing it?

Lior Bar Yosef 19:08
Yes. So I, I actually went through quite a lot of interviews and looked at a wide range of jobs from developing to researching to incident response and threat hunting. And it, it took a while just like you said to understand exactly what I was looking for. And in the end, I realized that for me, my motivation to get up in the morning and my motivation to continue working after the workday was done is to love my job and to feel like I'm doing something meaningful and to feel like I am challenged on a daily basis. And so I wanted to choose a job that not only what you know, I do not Want to disregard salary or benefits, those are extremely important. And it is extremely important that one feels compensated for their work and they feel appreciated in by their company. But I think what is much more important is what that you love what you do and what you do fascinates you. And when I began interviewing and different companies, there were, every company was interesting in a different way. But then I interviewed in my current company, which is a cyber security company that builds a product for healthcare organizations, for their security against cyber attacks. And I was interviewed there, and I talked with the people who worked there. And I realized that what they do, just, it clicked in my mind, it fascinated me, learning about how vulnerable the healthcare industry is to cyber attacks and how medical devices communicate and the protocols that they use. And the the attacks that go on in hospitals all over the world. every couple of weeks, a different headline pops up of a different hospital that was attacked by ransom wares, and by worms and so forth, medical information that was stolen, that world really needs protection. And I felt like I will do meaningful work in this company. And this is this is a gap. The the vulnerability of the the hospitals and the health guard, or healthcare organizations is a gap that that I wanted to help close. And so that is why I chose what, what to do today. But I really believe that everybody is interested in different areas, it's just important to find what sparks your interest. And what makes you think, Wow, like, I want to continue reading about the subject in my free time as well.

Tim Bourguignon 22:12
Very important indeed. You said you said use the word click. So when you said when when you found this job it clicked and you you you had the feeling? That's a match. Did you have the feeling beforehand? That's where you want to go? and odd? Did you kind of stumble upon the job and it clicked? I'm trying to find how. And maybe the real question is, if you had an idea of going in there, how did you find the the elements that were important for you, and are important to you, and you wanted to record this research exactly in this direction.

Lior Bar Yosef 22:45
So I for me, it was a combination of the both I had previously learned about cybersecurity and healthcare, I had heard about it from my friends who had similar jobs. And people, you know, I talk with a lot of friends and family who are familiar with these roles. So I had learned about this world beforehand. I wasn't necessarily looking to join it only, I was really in the beginning open to all companies all I guess realms of cybersecurity. But the more interviews I went to, I realized that I I love maybe it's a little bit from my past, I love the the biology and the medicine aspect. And from my background of cybersecurity and networking, I realized that that was a place where I can really work and try to improve and push forward.

Tim Bourguignon 23:49
It definitely sounds like a sweet spot off of the skills you bring. So so it's whenever I realized that for so many interviews is always people find a spot where they can bring different skill sets and industry together. And at that point, they find a job, which makes them happy. And so for you, cybersecurity seems to be one. The networking seems to be one, the bio seems to be one. It kind of kind of sounded like a sweet spot in there. Yeah. That's, that's also something that comes from our book. It's called the Big Five for life. Where the author says we have to find the big fight in the five elements that make us happy and if we want to maximize in the in everything we do, and so it's easy, easier said than done and finding those those elements and but when you find a job that really gathers all those five, or maybe four of them, that's really your highlight and you have to stick with it and run with it.

Lior Bar Yosef 24:45
Yeah, I agree. I agree for sure.

Tim Bourguignon 24:49
So, now you you apply for this job, you got the job. How do you transition from a military career to an industry career Is it the same as a different in which ways Is it is it the same was a different,

Lior Bar Yosef 25:03
so it is a lot of the same in terms of the background knowledge. And in the end, I applied for this job. And I did go through tests and interviews, which did test my knowledge and my experience and my skills. So this basis of, of it, background skills was built in the army. But it is very different in the industry. In the end, there is a lot of different, I guess, actors playing in the field. A lot of what interests for, say healthcare organizations is patient safety is protecting the hospital's reputation, and so forth. And this different goals really plays into how we build our product in the company. And this is completely different than what I experienced in the army, as well as the general motivation for working is very different. When I look at my military career. I A lot of my motivation stemmed from also, you know, protecting my, my country and working for my country. And this plays a little bit differently when I work in the private sector. But I don't think the motivation is less here, it's just a little bit different. There are different things that push push me,

Tim Bourguignon 26:36
I wanted to say it's more intrinsic motivation. But that's not true. It's a different it's really a different intrinsic motivation. So, yeah, okay. I'll have to ponder about that. Interesting. I was I was I work for the healthcare industry as well. I worked for Siemens for a while, and now we're creating linear accelerators for for cancer therapy. Can you imagine what's you working on now? machines and try to break them? No, no,

Lior Bar Yosef 27:06
we don't try to break them out quite the opposite. We try to protect them.

Tim Bourguignon 27:12
Yeah, but by finding where they could break. Specifically, I worked a lot on the DICOM communication center. So yeah, I could imagine what you could do with that.

Lior Bar Yosef 27:27
Yeah, we work? We work a lot with that.

Tim Bourguignon 27:30
I'm sure. It's a good. So how did you ease into this role? How do you know how fast Did you ramp up? Did you really start working with the skills you had and apply them right away? Or did you have to go through hours and hours and hours of learning? Or is it part of the drama that said, Tell us about that.

Lior Bar Yosef 27:49
So for me, I did go through a little bit of training in the beginning to be familiar with this different industry and to close the gaps in technical knowledge that I didn't have. Because it's new, every every I think company that you join, you will need to learn a little bit of new things. But in in general, I sort of jumped right in after the basic training and started working and learned a lot throughout the job. I think one of the most important skills that I continue to try to get better at and work at is self learning. And I think that's really, really important. Because throughout a technical career, you are faced with a lot of unknowns. And a lot of I think, problems that you need to solve and you might not necessarily know how to in the beginning. And so you need to learn about them and research them and teach yourself to solve these problems as well. And so I so it was a lot of also hands on learning throughout the job as well.

Tim Bourguignon 29:13
what's what's your strategy, when you face a problem you don't know at all? And stop, you have to figure out something? what's what's your opinion on Saturday? How do you learn? How do you like to learn? How do you go about doing it?

Lior Bar Yosef 29:26
So I, first of all, try to map out the questions that I see. I try to map out the questions that I'm trying to answer in this problem. So I first tried to see what I'm trying to get in the end, where I'm trying to reach the goal that I want to accomplish. And from there, I sometimes write out the questions that I face throughout that I need to answer to get to that goal. Sort of mini questions, stepping stones to crossing the pond? And from there I just go question by question and, and try to work out the small issues in order to solve the big one.

Tim Bourguignon 30:18
So very much set the the course, from the beginning with those questions, and then divide and conquer and really try to to make small steps in somewhat the right direction and always course correct against those questions you mapped out at the beginning?

Lior Bar Yosef 30:37
Yes, exactly. And a lot of it is also trying to see, I guess a lot of the issues that we are trying to answer as researchers is, is also not only finding I guess, the correct answer, or the correct piece of the puzzle to complete the full picture, it's also trying to understand what are the possibilities of, of how, if you really look at it, as a puzzle, I will continue with this metaphor, exactly how the how the last piece can be shaped in order for it to fit, maybe it is two pieces, maybe it can be three doesn't necessarily have to be one. And so you have to check all the different options, and make sure that you look at the complete picture in order to solve the question that you're trying to answer. Because sometimes the answers are, are far not not in the direction that you were originally looking at.

Tim Bourguignon 31:35
Did you have some diverse teams again, or in terms of skill set? So that if one of the piece of the puzzle took different news is not in your skill set? Isn't it completely different in different directions that you can use somebody else's big air quotes? To get at it? Or to realize that it's not on your skill sets? yet? or shouldn't be on? Not at all?

Lior Bar Yosef 32:01
Yeah, definitely, we have different teams. In my current company, and everybody has a different skill set, we have the development team, the research team. And a lot of times we do work together, and we do try to help out each other. And balance, bounce ideas off each other in order to, to complete what we want to accomplish. I, in the end, everybody is working on the same goal. We're all working on the same product for the same clients. And so we always try to help out each other and solve the questions we have together.

Tim Bourguignon 32:48
Maybe to go with a bit in different directions. Just a couple minutes before I ask you to if you are trying to break things and you said no. But how do you go about assessing the threats to assist them without trying to break them or having this mindset of how could I break things? Or you see what I mean? How do you balance this, this breaking versus protecting this blue team versus red team? And all that's associated to that?

Lior Bar Yosef 33:18
Well, it's a fine line. In in the end, in order to protect a network you need to understand and try to think like the hacker of how do you even hack into the network, just like you mentioned. And it is a fine line? I think, in general, we try to pinpoint the gaps and we try to instead of I guess, looking at the medical device and and trying to see how to make it malfunction or something we try to see where the hacker will try to what what vulnerabilities the hacker will try to use in order to infiltrate the network in order to connect to the medical device. And try to see how we can protect from that. And so it is a lot of trying to get into the hackers head and trying to see what are the little loopholes in the network. And also a lot of the work is looking at how the hospital runs smoothly. And then trying to notice abnormal behavior and trying to see if devices do not communicate in the way that we had expected to beforehand and try to see maybe from there if something isn't running smoothly if something is maybe wrong.

Tim Bourguignon 34:50
Are you more more focused on the machines themselves or really the entire network off often hospital for instance. How's yours level,

Lior Bar Yosef 35:00
we we tried to do both. So in general, we do try to protect the whole hospital, look at the full security posture of the network and analyze the different points and the different weak spots, and how to increase that. And we also look at the specific devices. For example, just a couple of months ago, I was researching a network and I realized that there were a few imaging devices that were communicating in an abnormal way. And so I looked into that, and with the help of our head of research a lot, we looked into it together. And we realized that these devices were being accessed by external vendors servers. So as servers from the internet, were connecting to these devices and very unencrypted management protocols that could lead to hackers taking advantage of these connections and stealing credentials, and maybe using this connection in order to infiltrate the network. And so this sort of research was very device centric, we were looking at the actual devices and how they were vulnerable to attacks from the outside from the internet. So we sort of look at both areas,

Tim Bourguignon 36:34
is there an end to such such an inquisitive work on an hospital network? Or is it something when you start, you just cannot stop and you have to continue, continue, continue, always adding or observing the new machines that are added or observing the new, the new network changes that dawn, etc. And it's a never ending effort,

Lior Bar Yosef 36:57
it is a never ending effort, for sure. There are always new vulnerabilities that are being exposed and closed and new devices that are connected to the network that work in a different way and are vulnerable to different attacks. So you always need to be aware, always keep up to date, with the new technologies that are being released. And in in the same area, also the security methods of threat hunting and vulnerability management is also always getting better and improving worldwide. So it is a never ending loop of new vulnerabilities that are disclosed. And then us trying to secure the network from them. It's a never ending loop that is really fascinating. And the potential is endless for, for the security end of things.

Tim Bourguignon 37:58
It's an ending cat and mouse game.

Lior Bar Yosef 38:01
Yeah. It's also increasing over the years.

Tim Bourguignon 38:05
It is indeed, it doesn't mean and I guess all the, the the the advanced techniques from today will be the basic techniques from tomorrow. And so you have to really be ready for that. And there will be the new techniques coming up. I think you have to the whole security assessments you did a few days ago might be obsolete right now with the tools of today or tomorrow. So you have to do that again. Yeah, exactly.

Lior Bar Yosef 38:31

Tim Bourguignon 38:34
What drives your curiosity today, you spoke about curiosity at the very beginning. And that's what was driving your your learning experience. What do you learn about nowadays, what what drives you into learning more?

Lior Bar Yosef 38:47
So as, as I mentioned earlier, the world is advancing so fast in different research techniques and different coding techniques, for example, data science and artificial intelligence, machine learning techniques. This whole world really fascinates me and these new realms of, of coding and development, it really, really interests me and it's an example of the things that drive me today to learn more and understand how to improve and how to and sort of where, where I think we should lead our product next and which direction to take in the future.

Tim Bourguignon 39:41
When you when you speak about AI and ml and data science cetera. It's not things that you inherently do nowadays. So it's not research or or learning inquiries that you do on your day to day job. It's something you're learning on the side and trying to bring in because you see, it might be useful and effective, right?

Lior Bar Yosef 40:00
Exactly, exactly. We we tried to do that all the time. And I personally try to learn from other people around me all the time, new techniques and to see what fascinates me and what what pushes me forward Exactly.

Tim Bourguignon 40:17
To one more skill to bring to your sweet spot of skills and and find your job for tomorrow. Oh, building craft your job for tomorrow.

Lior Bar Yosef 40:29
The world has so much potential I feel like we're only just starting to, to understand where technology will lead us next. Yeah,

Tim Bourguignon 40:39
we might be Oh, maybe we just don't understand at all. They're very true. Very true. Indeed. I'm looking back, would you? How would you advise somebody starting their career in cybersecurity nowadays? What what would be the one advice that maybe you had or didn't have and would have liked to have? Back then, really, in starting and growing your career in cybersecurity,

Lior Bar Yosef 41:07
I, I would really advise to talk to as many people as you can around you, and learn from other people what they do, in order to understand what interests you the most. Other people's firsthand experience is the thing that really makes you understand how their day to day looks like and what topics they touch on a daily basis, and where you want to be involved in the industry. So that would be I think, my number one advice to talk to as many people learn from others and build your own career path towards what drives you and interests you the most.

Tim Bourguignon 41:56
That's music to my ears. The vision of this podcast.

Lior Bar Yosef 42:00
Exactly, exactly.

Tim Bourguignon 42:02
Awesome. Very good. Very cool. Yeah. We, if I may, we don't speak with people merely enough. We should speak Wait, wait, wait way more and be curious about them and, and ask them why they did things and how they did things and, and try really to learn from them. That's, that's something that's underrated, even though some do it extensively. Even more people don't do it at all. Not nearly enough. So Amen.

Lior Bar Yosef 42:29
I completely agree. I feel like I learned so much from others and others experiences that really shaped my choices today. I talked to how my friends solve different problems. They, they were they looked at and how in the career choices they made, and they inspire me to to make the choices that would best make me happy and I completely

Tim Bourguignon 42:59
agree with you. Awesome. It's been it's been fantastic listening to your story, and it's already over. Where would be the best place to start the discussion with your continued discussion with you.

Lior Bar Yosef 43:11
So you can reach me in LinkedIn under my name Leo barrio. Or you can reach out to me through my email, which is Li r b y at cyber MDX calm.

Tim Bourguignon 43:25
Okay, anything coming up on your plate?

Lior Bar Yosef 43:28
Not right now. But I really want to thank you for this opportunity. And I had a great time.

Tim Bourguignon 43:33
Well, thank you very much.

Tim Bourguignon 43:36
And this has been another episode of Developer's Journey, we'll see each other is really with each other next week. Bye. Would you describe your daily work with the word puzzle solving, I love how Lior was able to follow our curiosity and passion from high school to her mandatory military service, as well as our job after leaving the army. This sentence she said, find what sparkes your interest and makes you want to read about it in your free time really, really resonates with me, it doesn't mean that you always have time to do it. But it means that it triggers you enough to tickle your brain day in and day out. What are you taking out of this story? You can reach me on Twitter. I'm at @timothep, or use the comment section on our website under the transcript of this episode. And please do tell me what you took out of this story. I always love to hear how it resonates with you. And now last but not least, you will need to find an unsecure printer somewhere and print out the transcript of this episode to let other people hear about it or not. You could also tell your friends what you learn in that journey and why they shouldn't subscribe to