Software Developers Journey Podcast

#223 Adi Polak continuous learner in the big-data space


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Adi Polak 0:00
You know, you can go sideways, you can jump in between different roles in order to grow your bag of skills, soft and hard skills. And this is okay. And this is something that is appreciated and valued by the industry because it shows that you are willing to learn other areas and it's also okay if the specific path that you are on is not exactly enabling you to learn these new skills that you do want to learn and do want to grow into. And this is part of a long term career right.

Tim Bourguignon 0:38
Hello, and welcome to developer's journey to podcast bringing you the making of stories of successful software developers. To help you on your upcoming journey. I'm your host, Tim bourguignon. On this episode 223, I receive Addy polec. At currently works as the vice president of developer experience at tree verse, where she focuses on educating and helping teams design architect and build cost effective data systems and machine learning pipelines. Eddie is an international speaker and the author of O'Reilly's upcoming book, machine learning with Apache Spark, when she isn't building data pipelines or thinking up new software architectures, you can find her on her local cultural scene, I heard it's in Israel, or at the beach, which tends to be cool in Israel. Edie, welcome to dev journey.

Adi Polak 1:32
Thank you so much, Tim. It's a pleasure to be here with you today.

Tim Bourguignon 1:35
And it's my pleasure to have you on. But before we come to your story, I want to thank the terrific listeners who support the show every month, you are keeping the dev journey lights up. If you would like to join this fine crew, and help me spend more time on finding phenomenal guests, then editing audio tracks, please go to our website, Dev journey dot info, and click on the Support me on Patreon button. Even the smallest contributions are giant steps toward a sustainable dev journey. journey. Thank you. And now back to today's guest. So Edie, as you know, the show exists to help the listeners understand what your story look like, and imagine how to shape their own future. So as usual on the show, let's go back to your beginnings. Where are we to place the start of your tech journey?

Adi Polak 2:27
Wow, that's a great question. There's so many places to start, I guess a good start for me would be during my master's degree. So I did a master in computer science with a thesis. And they worked at the university lab where I got exposed to incredible projects working with DARPA and IBM and Deutsche Telekom labs, our lab was very practical. So we did research. And the research that we did was practical and usable. So companies really enjoyed collaborating with us. So for me, it gives me insights into how can you take that research, what is the value of that for companies, and how you can make it super accurate, super relevant, and build it as a project more than actual research. So it enables me to understand the value of what I do, right? Because it's not only a thesis, it's not only theory, it's actually practical. And also build it as a project because on the other side, there was a customer, right? So if so, if I worked with IBM, IBM, back then I worked with IBM Security labs, and we had the CTO and the CEO of IBM Security labs that were managing the whole lab. So they were actually my customers. So that was really interesting and taught me a lot about, you know, how to take responsibility that goes beyond the research, how to articulate a lot of the findings in a way that they can actually take it back and do something with it, right goes beyond the just metrics, statistics aspects of the world of machine learning, which exposed me to more technologies as well. I remember back then, specifically with IBM, they wanted me to take the research that I did the machine learning algorithm that I develop, and develop it in a way that we can run it over big data. So that gave me a chip. That was a challenge, right? A lot of research and data scientists and machine learning researchers would run algorithms on their local machines. You have some Python script, or depends on the language that you enjoy working with. But you'll run it locally. You'll get statistics evaluations, you run all the charts, you compare it to other research, but it's very much stays local and Here, I was facing that challenge of taking it to the next step. And that then the industry didn't have all the great tools that we have today. So, you know, I was sitting there, they want me to run it on top of big data, we wanted to finish relatively fast, there wasn't much of infrastructure back then they did gave me access to their DevOps team, which taught me how to work with DevOps folks, as a machine learning researcher, and also building different tools. And what I don't know, which is actually researching for tools that will enable me to develop the algorithms that I developed over big data, which was a whole new domain to explore. And so I got exposed to the wonderful Hadoop world. So I developed MapReduce back then I developed them in Java. So also, you know, taking full advantage of the of the Java programming language and learning it from scratch, and also I leverage my hood. So I got exposed to Apache mahoe, which is another library to run machine learning on top of MapReduce. And that kind of brought me into a beautiful journey of distributed systems. So that opened the door and actually created a lot of curiosity, because I realized that while you know, the statistics, and the basics and how data is distributed in the world, from a statistics point of view, is really interesting. And the data domain, I worked in the security with security data. So the security data domain is fascinating and has a lot of different pieces attached to it from human context, all the way to how our machines are structured, actually realized back then that there is a lot of algorithms that are part of a distributed system world that I wanted to learn more of. And so that was when I decided to do a shift in my career. So instead of continuing from a master's degree to a PhD, like most of my colleagues back then I had to disappoint my professor a little bit and say no to continuing a PhD to a PhD. And that because I wanted to learn about the world of distributed systems and distributed data, I thought that it's, you know, an area that I want to explore more. So I took an entry level position as a big data infrastructure engineer, which was a huge shift, because that requires learning a lot of new things from scratch. So imagining after having a couple of years working as a machine learning researcher gaining all the skills and tools and, you know, developing the network of people that do what you do, so you can continue learning and exploring and growing together, I took a complete turn and move into a new space. So that means, although I'm bringing a lot of learning systems, and the ability to articulate and tell and share what it is that I'm doing, I noticed there's a gap, there's a skills gap that I need to address, I need to carve out time to learn the new things that I don't know. And there's going to be a lot of things I don't know, I don't know,

Tim Bourguignon 8:49
if I remember exactly the same in my career, I had a master's degree in engineering, and global engineering, so a lot of math, physics, etc. And a bit of, of programming informatics. And when I started working for Siemens, back then, I was head to head to head or the high level with the with the apprentices, who had been coding full time for two years. And we're just showing me how to how to code and it was so humbling at the very beginning to go, wow, okay, I really have to up my game in there. I knew I had I had I was bringing a lot of different things I was bringing physics understanding of what of the machines were working on and what it's really doing, etc. So knowledge that it didn't need right away. But that was really a step down at first all it felt like a step dancing. Oh, wow. I'm now comparing myself was 18 years old, and I was 23 Oh, that felt like big, big thing. So I remember exactly this phase and I feel it's it might have been the same for you really saying okay, I have a baggage but it's not useful right away. But wondering when it will become useful again. I'm sure it's somewhere in the story.

Adi Polak 10:43
Exactly, it's, you know, it's not useful. However, I always I always like to separate the two, right, because we have the hard skills that we gather throughout life. And then we have the soft skills that we gather, right? So the hard skills usually relates to a programming language, the frameworks we work with how to structure you development project, etc. And then there are the soft skills, how do we promote issues? How do we build alignment? How do we take responsibility? How do we own the space that we own? Right? How do we solve problems? How do we develop a learning system for ourself in order to find out what the gaps are, and, you know, slowly, but surely, making sure we're taking actions to minimize that gap as we go how to communicate with different people within the organization, right, because I did work with a DevOps team at IBM, and I did work with the CEO and CTO back there who was managing the security labs. So they had a lot of responsibility, and I had to report to them. So that gives me you know, another skill set that it's more of a soft skill set. So I agree, it's completely like that you come you have your your whole baggage of skills and things that, you know, however, it's also good to take into consideration that the things that you learned can be also things that you can leverage going forward, represent agree. And for my case, it really helped me map the organization that I just joined map the teams understand who are the people to connect with when I have specific questions, how to communicate how to work with them, because I was building it for big data infrastructure, but we also had researchers. So on the other side, the people that I were surveying was actually a security researchers, they didn't do machine learning like I did. But you know, we kind of shared the same experience the same language and words and terminology from the security space. So I was actually able to bridge that gap to the engineering team, so that was really good from for their organizations was one of the gaps that we had back then. And so taking that role helped me learn about the distributed system. And then I started digging in more and more into the data space into the you know, picking up under the picking under the hood, to see how really the system works. And I was part of a team who was charged with moving a lot of our infrastructure back from moving away from Hadoop MapReduce, into Apache Spark. So that helped me a lot on the intro, and also on Apache Spark. And later on, we hired more people. And what I noticed, it's Apache Spark is this wonderful framework that adds a lot of abstractions on top of big data. So a lot of engineers that use Apache Spark today don't always have the opportunity to pick under the hood and see how it works. And so that creates sometimes a lower performance, we can always improve the low performance from a power usability. And so we always wanted to improve the way we're consuming the hardware in order to serve more workloads. And so I realized that and that because you know, some of the knowledge gap that we had, because I already developed the skills of, you know, let's find the knowledge gap. Let's fix them. Let's see, you know, whether we're missing what is the connective tissue, the interface that we need to build in order to drive further growth and success in the team? And so I created an internal to, yeah, to educate the engineers on you know, the internals of Apache Spark, how do we work with them and think through, you know, the best practices that we identified as spreading the message out? And I remember in that course, not only the engineers joined, so the product manager joined and the chief architect joined and there was a lot of different figures, a lot of different you know, people that I didn't understand that that was important to them, but because they joined and because I did, I created a, you know, internal public, but internally available for everyone who worse than I realize it's a topic that more people want to learn. So more people get curious. They want to really understand the nitty picky things of how the algorithm works, how the mapping, how is it get all the optimizations. So I understand back then that I can take it to outside of the organization. I can speak about it in meetups, I can do conference, a lot of engineers, and not only engineers apparently wants to learn more about this wonderful topic of distributed computing and distributed systems. And so I collaborated with Cloudera back then, and we put together a meet up, of course, together with my company, and we put together a meet up and we had this great meet up chat, forum of people coming to learn about Spark and the pitfalls, and how we fix and how we improve the performance back then. And I remember there was such good positive learning energy in the room, and a lot of people ask these wonderful questions. Like, for some of them, I had answers. And some of them it's like, kind of, in the ha moment that you sit down, it's like,

Tim Bourguignon 16:09
laughing so hard, I know that.

Adi Polak 16:14
I wouldn't take more into it, you know, it's like a really good question, something I didn't think about. And so kind of created a whole atmosphere of group learning that starts with, you know, me sharing what I know, presenting it, creating the whole slides, and, you know, giving the talk and all that, but actually, the people were sitting in the room, were reflecting back right, with their questions with their curiosity with their, you know, knowledge and different use cases that they had, because now it's wasn't only you know, the company that I work, then it was actually a public meetup. So a public, you know, user group event that a lot of people from other company came in. So I, I really enjoyed that. Because I'm, I enjoy learning. And I'm a curious person by nature. And I saw it as a great opportunity to learn about three use cases, what does people looking to solve? You know, how did they build their architecture? What is the common denominator among all these? Is there only one good way? Is there a practice? Is there a best practice to our organization? Is there a best practice for industry, and that took me on a path to want to do more events and more conferences and more socializing, although I'm relatively an introvert, but I had this great incentive of, you know, curiosity and need to learn, I need to know more. And so it basically helped me grow up in that and start socializing and increasing my network, by me sharing what it is that I know what it is that I collected, and also be open to other people sharing their experience and also getting suggestions and you know, other people learnings from their experience. So great, a whole wonderful circle of knowledge sharing, and this is when I decided to continue doing it more. So

Tim Bourguignon 18:13
more, presenting more, more getting out and preaching, making equity and preaching the the the big data in Apache Spark. Wait, you mean,

Adi Polak 18:22
exactly. And also a career change? Oh,

Tim Bourguignon 18:25
okay. Tell us about that.

Adi Polak 18:28
Absolutely. So it also took me in a career change where I decided to, I was present. So people started noticing that I'm presenting that I'm becoming technical speaker, I'm improving it. And I always bring new insights and wisdom and knowledge. And, you know, a lot of it's her kind of a whole circle of community building around that. And so, back in the days, Microsoft, were looking for someone who can do open source and public speaking. So it was kind of a combination between, hey, you know, there's no production system that you need to take care of, however, you need to work very closely with the product team to make sure we're stating the developer voice. And also, we have healthy integration within the open source tools. And so we're enabling developers to take advantage of existing open source tools on the Azure platform. And that was a big unknown unknown. I came from, you know, having a production system waking up in the middle of the night below working with a very close tn. I remember that opportunity. And I looked at it and I and I asked so many questions like, what does that mean? What does a day looks like? What is what should I measure? Right? How do we know when when we succeed? What is what is success for us, right? Are the people I'm going to work with on a daily basis? And it just created more unknowns?

Tim Bourguignon 20:00
Okay, so now I'm wondering What convinced you if it was just unknown, unknown, unknown, unknown, unknown? What was the? Now I want to do this? Is this the unknown? Is this the who? That sounds fascinating?

Adi Polak 20:12
Yeah, I think it's a combination between, you know, nature of curiosity and curiosity meets opportunity. I remember one of the things was you should build the bridge with the product managers. And that was like, great for the product managers, just like, you'll have to figure it out. And I was like, Yeah, it's like, people company. What do you mean, figure it out?

Tim Bourguignon 20:38
I know, you're trying to set me up for success. But it feels weird. How did you figure it out?

Adi Polak 20:45
Wow. So first, they figure it out. They are on a different timezone. Right. It is Microsoft, it is a global company, you know, based in Tel Aviv in Israel, I start exploring, I remember. So during my interview, so the way Microsoft does interview, after you finish all the technical aspect and personal aspect, there's also another interview that speaks about matching to the Microsoft culture. So it goes beyond the immediate team and goes beyond the technical aspects. But actually, to make sure when you are joining Microsoft, you will be able to move within Microsoft to different positions. So this is really crucial. And you know, one of the cornerstones of Microsoft man, like managers and Microsoft, and generally the organization that Microsoft is, because the goal here is to, we're hiring great people, we want to give them the best environment. And so if they want to grow, and we don't have the opportunity to grow them within the same role, that then they have other opportunities within Microsoft, because it's so big. So I was interviewing with one of the VPs, and as well as one of the Microsoft VPS. And she was absolutely phenomenal. And she always told me if you need anything, my doors open, and it was so it was always open. And she always invited me to sessions with the management in Israel. And I learned a lot, I took a lot of notes, you know, sometimes I asked questions. And you know, in the whole room, sometimes I asked questions in private, but she helped me figure out who are the people that I should start speaking with, and she wasn't my manager, she wasn't part of my immediate organization. She was just a person that interviewed me as part of the process to get into Microsoft, you know, kind of lend a hand and say, Hey, if you need anything, reach out, and I was like, Oh, someone tells me to reach out if I need something, or reach out, right? Even if they're not exactly from my organization, there's nothing to lose here. So I did. And she helped me greatly with understanding the brother and the brother umbrella of what Microsoft is, how to find out who were the people who should I reached out to. And so when I did have, so I realized a lot of the people that I should speak and work with and build a bridge with are actually based in Seattle. So in Seattle, there's Seattle, Redmond, this is where delta Microsoft headquarters is. And then, you know, the next thing was okay, so how can I develop an opportunity to meet them face to face so we can actually start working on building these regions, and there wasn't a lot. So I, I knew that I had to be super strategic in this meeting. So when I'm coming to a meeting, and prep them, giving them a lot of value, and making sure they understand why we want to build that bridge, so kind of like trying to find a win win situations where they want to work with me and I want to work with them. Because a it's was on my you know, kind of ownership to and responsibility to build that connections with them. However, it wasn't part of their responsibility. So it was really interesting place to be asked where I understood that I have to bring a lot of value and be super professional and well articulated in order to formulate these bridge. So there was a lot of challenges that came together that taught me a lot of how to move things within organizations that it's so big, how to build this alignment, how to face with, you know, the unknown, unknown of, you know, I want to drive success. However, I came from an engineering position, I took this role because I want to be able to share with the world what I know and kind of have an open on like learning together. And now I'm also facing learning about huge organizations striving alignment in huge organization and building the bridges in order to bring success to back to the table. So that actually taught me a lot about you know, management.

Tim Bourguignon 24:46
Right, managing, managing people, but still having to minute.

Adi Polak 24:52
Exactly. So, how to be a manager without managing people and driving back building the bridges. Driving back opportunities and creating this wonderful interfaces between people, I in order to drive success for myself. So that was, again, more learnings. I remember I tried reading about that I tried asking people, everyone had different answer a different suggestion of how to go about that. And so I went really deep. And I thought, Okay, what do I feel comfortable with? How would I feel if someone would approach me the same, you know, the way that I did, I tried to approach other people. So kind of putting myself in their shoes, to get the feeling that get the experience that they will have, if I will approach them in that way. So that taught me a lot about the human context. And so how does people experience what it is that I say? And how does the message convey to the other side?

Tim Bourguignon 25:57
Wow, that's getting meta. So you really looked at yourself? Again, in the backwards, look at yourself talking? And how people will react to that and understand this and then adapt onto this? Or did you get that? Right?

Adi Polak 26:13
Exactly, exactly. It was a lot of learning. And there wasn't a lot of opportunities, right, there was a fixed number of opportunities to build that these bridges. And so I took it very carefully, you know, while always is, you know, listening and looking at the other person reactions, and trying to understand how they see it from their side in order to, you know, do my work. So it went well beyond beyond just an individual contributor.

Tim Bourguignon 26:51
When did you realize that you were successful at this, at this at this exercise?

Adi Polak 26:57
I realized that it was successful when I finally established a weekly meetings with the group product managers for the different tools that I was responsible for.

Tim Bourguignon 27:10
Okay, so so people who didn't have to interact with you chose to interact with you on a weekly basis, because they saw the value out of that. And that's, that's clearly a win,

Adi Polak 27:20
clearly a win. And I also, and my manager saw that as well, right? So they realize, Hey, she managed to build the infrastructure. Let's give her headcount. Right, because kind of like, you know, like you mentioned, it's like, kind of like being a manager without managing people. But because now there's an infrastructure, and that can be a teamwork. And it can be it's already exist, and we can start bringing more people into the table in order to have more deliverables, solve more problems, keep up with our commitments, then this is when I moved from an icy individual contributor role into a manager role. And Microsoft,

Tim Bourguignon 28:00
did you see that change coming?

Adi Polak 28:02
That's a good question. I remember back at the the, you know, when I joined, I was like, Okay, there's a lot of unknown unknown, and they want me to do things I don't know how to do so I have to learn. And there was kind of like, you know, some frustration there that was like a is that really my job is that someone themselves job like what's going on, but we were a growing organization. So I joined after, like, two years into, you know, the India Gate organization just started. So, inside Microsoft, it's kind of like a startup feel to it. It's like, you have to build the infrastructure. So I didn't see it coming. I started more from a place of, I want to be successful. I want to drive success for for, you know, the team that I'm working at, what do I need to do in order to succeed? So how do you build the infrastructure in order to succeed, and back then I didn't have that, you know, when they started, I didn't have the organizational view that I now have. So I didn't know that this is what's going to happen. But today, you know, I have the experience.

Tim Bourguignon 29:03
And you don't seem to worry with it. So it's good. Exactly. So you created a team from scratch working on this infrastructure that you created, and and happily ever after. But you're not even Microsoft anymore. So something would have happened.

Adi Polak 29:19
Right, right. So I created a team. So scratch, it was really interesting. We did multiple projects together, we drove great success. I got promoted twice, which is always, you know, a good signal within big realizations, because this is how big organizations operates. Yeah. And then I got this wonderful opportunity outside of Microsoft. I was actually you know, because I decided to learn in the open and share a lot of the technical knowledge that I have and work together with the community in order to exchange knowledge and having a learning together experience than a lot of people I noticed that and so a lot of opportunities came to. And I remember that I had multiple companies connecting with me, some of them like huge cloud vendors. Some of them are very big late stage startups. And some of them were early earlier startups. So I had the good mix of people approaching me and I, I took the time to think about it and say, Okay, maybe there is something to it, that I might be missing. I was already three years in Microsoft, I've understood things. I've seen the interest, I build the infrastructure, and I thought we were at a really good place. And I was in really good place. So it was a little bit of a shock for me, but some of them were really consistent. So I remember some companies were constantly falling out showing up having deep conversations on the tech on what they want to build. And what do I want to see. And that resonates from a technical point of view, a lot of their solutions seems to resonate with the challenges that I've seen in, in the data infrastructure world. And I decided to take one of the opportunities,

Tim Bourguignon 31:10
which has triggers isn't correct. Okay. So why did you pick that one?

Adi Polak 31:17
Yeah, I think Trevor's well I for my experience and perception on on the industry. Trevor's brings an interesting solution to a problem we were suffering from, for a very long time in the data engineering space. A lot of data engineers are suffering from lack of good tooling of how to work and manage data. And so Chavers is this tool, it provides like Fs, which is an open source tools that enable people to manage their production data in a much organized, safer, reliable way than what we did so far. I remember I had these problems as data entry engineer, and I kind of wished I had these tools back then, it was very hard, a lot of a lot of late nights, or early mornings, depends on the day. And it really resonated with me, I really saw how, and I still see how this can be huge and for for data engineers, and everyone who works with data and machine learning engineers and data scientists as well in their ecosystem, so I thought, that's a really good product. There's a really good engineering behind it, there's a really good team to drive that forward. Right? Because it's always about having a good team around you in order to build something great together, then it made sense. I also spoke with the investors who, you know, believe in the people believe in the company. And I saw this great energy around the data, huh? This is addictive. I want to be part of this addictive energy.

Tim Bourguignon 33:07
Okay. And how did you did you approach the maybe twist? Maybe it's not. So your VP of Dev Rel is often experience not there for a developer experience. So I in my words, that would be the experience of the tree vers developers, how they develop on on your tool, develop your tools, and on your tool. So inside and outside. Is that correct?

Adi Polak 33:32
Yes, to some extent I so the way, the way I frame that. And the way I structure it in inside the organization is we're responsible for the community and the external developer experience. So they need education, they need high quality content, they need a community to come and speak with and commensurate with when there's problems, they need a place to learn about, you know, what's up and coming in, and the data industry, so they need a good high quality source of information. And this is what we give in the community. They need fabulous document. They need integrations with other tools in the ecosystem. So we're building these bridges between other companies in order to develop these these integrations as well. And we need to be out there to share the message. Right? So we need a strong, strong engineers that are also open minded to do public speaking and presenting so we can get the message out. So this is this is what developer experience inside of Trevor's is and it attached to, of course, the business goals and the company vision. And so you know, within that constellation, I'm reporting directly to the CEO, which means a lot of my KPIs are strong, strict business KPIs that shows how our company is growing or a company is succeeding in the industry. and also carving and creating our path or even bigger growth. So hyper growth which startups love using, which is, you know, it's kind of the main difference between a startup as an a business startup is for hyper growth, and the business can be hyper growth as well.

Tim Bourguignon 35:19
But doesn't have to be. Exactly. Okay, then then then it makes sense, why you with your baggage in, in big data in these engineering in ML, etc, would be the right person for this and putting yourself in the shoes of the developers using your tools, and then driving the growth of the organization to really meet those needs. That, that that is that makes sense. It's usually the place where I asked you for advice. But actually, I want to ask you a question. I want to come back to the very first thing you said, because I don't think have heard this before. And I want to poke at that. When I asked you where you would place to start. If you're deaf journey. You said, Well, I was doing a master's degree in computer science. And it surprises me that that you would place it there, there must have been some some interaction with computers some some interest into into digital systems before why why did you face? Didn't you put the stuff you did earlier than that?

Adi Polak 36:16
Wow, this is a great question. I guess I can put it definitely earlier, there wasn't a lot of interaction with computers. You know, I was I don't think a lot of people know that. But I was exposed, exposed, like a big word. But you know, I started learning and learning more about Bitcoin back when it's just started, which is well, before I did my master's degree, so I had a lot of computer background back then. But I think it was a pivotal point because it was when I learned about first of all, I learned how to learn, write and develop system because you do a research. But I also became more open towards changing my career path. And being open to changing my career path in order to grow different skills that I wanted to. So this is why I you know, I specifically started from there to kind of show everyone the path that it's okay that in today's industry, it's not, you know, you can go sideways, you can jump in between different roles in order to grow your bag of skills, soft and hard skills. And this is okay. And this is something that is appreciated and valued by the industry, because it shows that you are willing to learn other areas. And it's also okay, if the specific path that you are on is not exactly enabling, you have to learn these new skills that you do want to learn and do want to grow. And this is part of a long term career, right. So yeah, it isn't.

Tim Bourguignon 37:53
It isn't. Yeah, I love that. It's really, really nice that you can put it to the point saying, well, from the get go, I wanted to learn and I wanted to experience all this really made sense. Thank you very much for that. Where would be the best place to continue this discussion or start a new discussion with you? Where can we find you online?

Adi Polak 38:11
Yeah, so you can find me on Twitter. It's at a de Polak. I'm very active on Twitter, I'm sharing a lot of thoughts and a lot of wisdoms and wisdom pearls that I collect along the way we can connect there, I'd love to get your thoughts on, you know, this podcast, is there any way I can help you or I can provide suggestions for your career. I'm also available on LinkedIn, sometimes a little bit harder for me to track all the messages, but more than happy to connect with you on LinkedIn. So if you are sending me a message, and I am responding a bit later than that, I apologize. But it's because of a more of a Twitter person. There's also a community that I created. So the data engineering community on Slack link for that is available from my Twitter profile, there's a good list of links, where you can find me and hopefully in a conference, you know, and discussing all the good things of data engineering and machine learning engineering. So if you're going to a tech conference, and you see me, please come say hi, I always love meeting new people. And I always love learning you know about about your experience and what it is that you're building. And, you know, how can we make it great together? So, yes,

Tim Bourguignon 39:26
then take the opportunity, people reach out. And by the time this this show airs, your book might be out. But regardless, I think O'Reilly has some links already. So we'll put a link to your book as well. In the show notes. There's some pre pre versions always available by O'Reilly Right.

Adi Polak 39:42
Exactly. So the book is available on the O'Reilly platforms. We release a chapter by chapter after the Riley team goes over it. Yeah. And it's going to be available in print very soon as well. If you decide to buy a copy, let me know I'd love to think I'd love to. I'd love to know what you think of the book and how do you find it useful? On in your day to day job

Tim Bourguignon 40:02
to help people. Awesome. Thank you very, very much.

Adi Polak 40:07
David, thank you so much. It was wonderful.

Tim Bourguignon 40:10
I'm glad to hear. And this has been another episode of Delta's journey. And we see each other next week. Cheers. Cheers. Thanks a lot for tuning in. I hope you have enjoyed this week's episode. If you liked the show, please share rate and review. It helps more listeners discover those stories. You can find the links to all the platforms to show appears on our website, Dev journey dot info, slash subscribe. Creating the show every week takes a lot of time, energy, and of course money. Would you please help me continue bringing out those inspiring stories every week by pledging a small monthly donation, you'll find our patreon link at Dev journey dot info slash donate. And finally, don't hesitate to reach out and tell me how this week store is shaping your future. You can find me on Twitter at @timothep ti m o t h e p or per email info at Dev journey dot info. Talk to you soon.