Software Developers Journey Podcast

#40 Ignacio Anaya on discovering your valuable skills


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Tim Bourguignon 0:15
Becoming a software developer is a never ending journey. Some developers started coding when they were kids. Some ended up studying computer science and others came from very different backgrounds. Some taught themselves programming. Others went through apprenticeship programs, a few even jumped in yet boot camps. One thing is sure, no journey is void of bumps, forks, and hard decisions. Every journey is unique and full of learning that are worth telling. So let's ask developers from all around the world, how big they are today. And how will they grow? Whether you are a junior Dev, starting your career, and learning the ropes, or maybe a senior developer, pushing and guiding others around you, we have something for you. Welcome to the software developers journey. Hello, and welcome to developer's journey, the podcast shining a light on Developers Live from all over the world. My name is Tim Bourguignon, and today I received that's you anoxia, that she was a full stack developer at the company block Inc, tech trainer and a speaker from Argentina. When Osiris especially, he's passionate about code, teaching, and also field hockey. He mostly works with JavaScript with Vue js and the blockchain. But he also likes to contribute to many dev communities and open source projects. lecture is also an ambassador for all zero and the organizer of the bundles is Vue. js user group in so welcome to the journey.

Ignacio Anaya 2:19
Hello, team. Thank you very much. I am really glad to hear now. It's a pleasure. It's a

Tim Bourguignon 2:23
pleasure. So let's jump right in. Tell us how did you become a developer? When did your journey start?

Ignacio Anaya 2:33
Well, it's really long story. Yes. So fast. But I start coding in college. When he was like 18, or 18 years old. It's, it's crazy, because when I start college, so for engineering, hearing in motorcycles, I didn't know anything about programming, I start a career because I love computers, I love how hardware, I use the computer to, you know, to play games, and stuff, but nothing related to code or to programming languages. So I discovered programming in, in college, in some signatures. And he found it really interesting. I found that was the way to degrade things, you know, to break my limits, or to do whatever I can, with a computer or with a notepad or a text editor. So, yeah, I think that everything is starting college. And we kind of randomness because I think that you start college is the before because I love computers, and you know, to arm and disarm my computer, you know, to buy new stuff, and more in more from the hardware side. But I also started because when I want to sign up for the university, I was between two careers. One was industrial design, and the other one was computer science or software engineering. But when I went to the University, the line to sign up for for industrial design was really big. So yeah, I was kind of lazy. I know. It's not really good advice. But was was lucky because I because of that I only sign up for for software engineering, and I think I did the right choice.

Tim Bourguignon 4:47
laziness. laziness is the quality for software developers, isn't it?

Ignacio Anaya 4:52
Yeah, it is because they're sick Come on, you know quote about that. I will always hire somebody. person because we'll find the easiest way to resolve the problem. So yeah, it's, it's not about quality. Depends, right? Depends.

Tim Bourguignon 5:11
Yeah. So so you signed up for this for this software, engineering curriculum? And how do we go from there?

Ignacio Anaya 5:20
Well, one of the first thing that was about programming but you know, pseudocode piece of paper with a pen, but I love it. He also had some signatures about close sheets on, you know, Booleans on all the bases that you need for programming and loving that he had sewer as in nutrition in college about that before I quit college, and my career. And probably two years later, I start looking for a new job. Well, basically, looking for my first computer job. At that time, I was hockey coach, because I am a hockey player to that it's something that, that define me as a professional to in that moment, I was training a lot, I am to play hockey. But at that time, I played differently, I used to train with the junior national team. In that moment, I want to be a professional hockey player. But then I, I figure out that I wasn't as good, as good as I want to be really elite hockey player. So I start advocating more to my professional career to programming. So I looked for, for a new job. It took me a while, basically, because I didn't have experience in computer programming or in any kind of computer job. And because was very into selten. Eight, to CELTA nine was kind of economical creases in the war. So the were there weren't good opportunities at that moment. So took me a while I like it more was 10 months to find a new job. And at the time I was looking for, you know, any kind of job related to computer or to software engineering, maybe ID or had this or something related, and I had the chance to find something good is related to programming the that probably start changing everything in my future. Mm hmm. You start in a new company was was a startup, not a startup, but the small company here in Argentina about telecommunications. And it was my school, right? This is work, right? Our learn to call in a professional environment, and learn to code with dotnet in that time, with C sharp. So start building things or software that people use every day. And you know, before that, obviously, for fun, or for college, I only called things related to sound or projects or exercises or something fun for me. But at that moment, when I start reading tunes that people use for their chosen life, it's when I start thinking or when I figure out, this is what I want to do.

Tim Bourguignon 8:49
Okay, and how was the learning there? How do you How did you? How did the company helped you to grow into this position?

Ignacio Anaya 8:58
Well, I think at the beginning was really hard. And basically, kind of the problem was, it was a trainee position. So that was what suppose that someone had to teach me or to show me the path that they need to follow to became a programmer, but that didn't happen. So it was I had to learn for my own, you know, with moves with courses and with internet. Of course, I got some help in the vehicle for my co workers, but wasn't a real, you know, ebos mentor that I had every day to learn or to ask questions. So at the beginning was brief was really hard. But I think that now, if I am thinking if I think that clearly That helped me a lot to became a programmer and to give me the skill to learn things easy, and to adapt to the new changes that we have in the software development world.

Tim Bourguignon 10:13
You mean, you mean that you had to find a way to learn on your own? And that this has been helpful skill afterward?

Ignacio Anaya 10:22
Yeah, yeah, of course, it's, you said, when you it's easier when you have a person where you can ask them where you can, you know, you have a mentor, or someone else following you, and try to teach you or to give you exercises, or to, you know, be partners in your learning process. That is great, that you know, when the other side, you don't get the independency that you need for the future, too. So I had to choose now, I will probably try to find something in the middle with a mentor on with the self learning path. But in the moment, you know, that was really hard for me, because I will in that time, I didn't speak English a lot. So most of the resources were in English, to learn, or to read material in English was a frustrating process at the beginning, you know, with a big learning curve. But after I can came across as cool. Everything start going very, very, very good.

Tim Bourguignon 11:38
How long ago was it?

Ignacio Anaya 11:41
Well, I think it was like a process of one year was curious, because it wasn't a small company. I was a trainee or developer, junior developer, but I also had to deal with some helpdesk staff in the, in the middle of the process. So you know, to maybe change format computers, or change some networking DVDs or fix a printer. So was your like, one year one, McAfee or that I started learning. And I think that it was a particular moment in that process where I got a new offer from another company. And in that moment, and the other company was to want to hire me. And in that moment, I realized that okay, I consider myself now our programmer there, another company that is willing to hire me for what I know for what I can do for what I have learned. So Well, I think that I can consider myself a programmer. So I can work not just here as a trainee, I can work in other company and I can find, learn whatever I need, obviously, with the time within, which I'm on with resources, with some mentorship, but I can I can go along from now. Yeah, it's like I said, it's okay. Well, I was you learning and studying and making mistakes for a whole year. Now, of course, I have a really long path or a real way from from now to do what I want to be. Can I Can Do It was, as you said, the validation that led me understand that I was able to do what I want to do, you know, because, yeah, was a big company during Santina school, it was a company for you know, nettles and that kind of industry. I wasn't, I was really comfortable at my current job. I the team was good. They had some friends there. I thought at that moment that, hey, I can do more in that company. I can keep learning there and building new stuff. So I stay for six months or something like that.

Tim Bourguignon 14:28
Which point do you do you transition from from this dotnet we're doing more into the front end than the and JavaScript VGS that you're doing right now?

Ignacio Anaya 14:41
Yeah. Well, that is something that that changed my my career to basically as I said, I start with the pledge and it worked several years with net I only in that time. Only did JavaScript as you know from copy paste from StackOverflow? You know, I remember that at the beginning is probably much. A lot of us was hard to understand the difference between JavaScript and jQuery, are the things the same thing or what is the difference? Why I should use one or the other one. And so well, at that moment, my JavaScript skills versus copy, paste, I start working later in our company, you know, more professional was my second school. More related to web development was so far five, three, but I started learning from a worker, a lot of JavaScript. So at that time, I wasn't an expert of JavaScript, but I you start to learn it, and then you start to appreciate it. Especially when you came from a old school language, a C sharp, if you start in JavaScript, you think, Okay, this is not good. This is not well, there really were things here in JavaScript. But when you start using it, and when you learn the basics, and you don't get frustrated, because something's not working, it's supposed to do, like, you know, define new scopes, and cashews and this JavaScript core concepts. It's where you start loving the language, or at least that was happen to me. And oh, yeah, well, at that moment I did with my money. Coraline, which only made some JavaScript is stuff we have, you know, separated throats, one can, there are some front fenders or people or designers. So I only did some JavaScript stuff. Just a few changes. And of course, at that moment, JavaScript wasn't the plan, which that that we have today, we we didn't have single page application, or maybe was the beginning of the single page applications. So we didn't have a kind of flow sheet in the client side that we have in the web apps today. So after that company, will I, I moved to another one, that was a frustrating process, I always like to work in startups, I don't really like the idea to working in the companies, I lead the startup environment or the small company environment. So he had the unity to work in a new company in Argentina, and your company that was sunny here in Argentina. was, was cool for me, because I, I was taking the, you know, a leadership role. taking control of like the development team. So I was the first person of the team and I had the role to hire more people and to be the technical team or the team here in Argentina. And that deal went good. A company disappears at three months ago. So yeah, wasn't a good experience. But was, you know, something that he find me too, was hard. Because at that moment, I start dealing I start buying my own apartment, and I was on unemployed, I didn't have a job, and they have to pay for for my apartment. So at the beginning was frustrating. It was a scare. And wood is, are we should I do that now? So I started looking for new jobs. And that's what's something that will really define me or was it kind of point of gray or gray pointing in my life? So I start looking for a new job. And I find, like five job offers in a week. And he didn't either love the summer. So where the companies are not really looking for new people? Well, we'll see again, like a break point where I figure out okay, I got to say, I think that the true fan good or not, but companies want to hire me. Of course, I understand the situation that so far developers are needed resource in all the countries. So that immediately idea that I could take some risk in my career, because I can probably find a solution later, right. Maybe in another They're kind of jobs. If you take some ways, if you take courage to lead the company or to find the note to go freelance or to go to follow a new opportunity, maybe it's hard, something went wrong, because you will not have the chance to find a job immediately, and you have your needs or your family or whatever. But fortunately, in software engineering and software development, we have that chance we have the opportunity to take some risk. If something went wrong, we can probably figure out or resolve it easily than in other kinds of jobs. So that it's in that it's, at least for me, important to the people, of course, always depends. But if you have the chance, and just take a fourth, think about it, but if you can take a risk that could probably improve your life in some way.

Tim Bourguignon 21:09
We are very privileged to be in the situation right now. This is a great problem to have, I would say. Yeah. And so this was your first, your first experience with more leadership, right?

Ignacio Anaya 21:27
Yeah. Oh, well, I I was captain of my team in Kochi, Kochi and the captain now. So I, like I always was involved in leadership positions easily in the companies without the formal title. And it's something that I consider that I can do it correctly, but it's not something that I look for, okay. It's the conditions or, you know, it's something that if it's validated by the team, or, or the situation, it's worth it, something I can do, but try to force out it's not some fun thing that take out my dreams.

Tim Bourguignon 22:15
Okay, but still, you you organize the the JS of uJs. user. Now, which is kind of a leadership position as well isn't.

Ignacio Anaya 22:25
It was just kind of, but would I think about communities is that communities belongs to remember Sam only the person who me and my my friend, Matt D, are the persons that get in contact with companies to with sponsors, to find the venues to find speakers were more like she speaks than and leaders or, you know, or owners, it's like, okay, the community is something important because without the members without the speakers without the companies providing help, the community will not exist. So you technically belongs to people. But I am really glad to organize the UCS meetup. I am trying to contribute to the community and give back to the community. A lot of things that the community gave to me.

Tim Bourguignon 23:20
When When did you start public speaking because we met we met last week in in Estonia. So for the listeners at a conference and you were you were holding a talk there? So when when do you start with public speaking?

Ignacio Anaya 23:35
Well, we'll say thanks to communities, I start us contributes or let's go do it by participating in communities. We have a great meetup here that's called meetup. js is a JavaScript community in bursitis. It's really B with a lot of people supporting it and bringing in a lot of, you know, a lot of love to, to build or to create or and organize events and undo a lot of stuff. So I used to participating in communities a lot in the meetups and conferences. And he, I thought in that time, okay, this is great, but I can contribute in our way, you know, it's something that I call like, fully contributors or read only members and members with write access. So there are there are these people in the communities are, they go to the events, they these are the thoughts or, you know, get to be or whatever, but they don't interact a lot with the people or they don't said they can give a talk or sharing experience or general knowledge or, or something else. And I was one of those guys, and one day I take courage and he said I want to give a talk. So I gave my first talk in meetup GS in thing two years ago. Yeah. And goes to talk about usually Yes. introductory introduction to VCs. And that moment was three new. And that was my first dog and was crazy because I sees that dog. I didn't stop. I keep getting dogs in local dance. After that, I had the chance to record it usually your scores in an important company called plaatse, where it's probably the leader platform for eLearning in Latin America, or Spanish, Spanish countries. Yeah, after that, you start doing third stuff, stuffs, and I had the chance to participate in my first conference last year, that was fronting con in Poland. And that was my first big talk and my first book in English, so I was really nervous. That was a great experience. I started out I went to other conferences to lease born XCOM to go marching USA to Estonia to calm Oh, I, I really liked it. And something that I want to do. Right now, and I want to do in the future. And, of course, my job and, and the kind of vision that I have now, or the kind of job that I have now led me to that. And working remotely, so I can work in water place, the world I want. So something great where I can balance my life between coding between each thing, you know, you said before, I am a tech trainer, I love to teach, I love to share knowledge, I love to share experiences, because I consider that this is the best way to learn things. You really are you really learn when you have to explain something to another person. So that was the main reason that I started teaching JavaScript, real stuff. So it's great. You know that the remote work? Let me mix the things that I mostly love.

Tim Bourguignon 27:29
You work remotely for blogging or remotely for for planes?

Ignacio Anaya 27:35
Yeah. Yeah, we're working remotely. Three years ago, four different companies, this might be my job. But it changed my life. had more time for me, I have more time for to stay with my wife to play hooky to train or just to watch TV, I don't have to drive to the office. Here in verse Iris transcript, it's a chaos. So you probably lose, you lose like one or two hours per day you go into the office. And when I start working remotely, everything changed. I have at least two hours more in my life to do whatever I want to learn a new thing to do a side project to contribute to open source to organize a meetup, JS or Rita. Or to river it up. Because, you know, it's, it's great. But behind that hook, there are a lot of work to do. So after I started working remotely, I could find more time for me on on more time to advocate with the things that they want to do besides my full time employee.

Tim Bourguignon 28:55
What do you find hard to do when when you transition from from? I would say a normal job in the company to a remote job. I was hired. How did you did you overcome this?

Ignacio Anaya 29:09
Well, yeah, it's hard to see Shawn mainly because your house is your office. So like you get up and you are in your office, and you want to break and you can go to the gym and you want to stop working and you you have your bed there. So it's hard to set unscheduled, you know, okay, we work from nine to 18 or from nine to five or, you know, set on a strict skill and to avoid working at the midnight or, you know, at any other time that it's so good for you. But they then if you're out that it can work at night. I like to work at night. So it's not a problem for me like okay, it's three AIDS. It's me day Want to get out and run or, you know, take some free space or some free air for me, I can do that. So I can keep working at night, it's hard to find that balance. But the most important thing is that you probably need to do something of sided work. Because if not your entire day in your house, and you don't speak with parcels you build, you don't interact with real persons or, or, you know, with pieces in, in the same environment, it could be a little hard for me, fortunately for me, I, I played hockey, so I had to leave my house every day, and train and be with friends. But I recommend is to find DVT, or some thing that in some point, or most of the days of the week, it set you out of the house, and understand the difference between, you know, free time and time. Don't be distracted for whatever it could have in your house. Try to sit up not listening is still. But yeah, practice it up. If you want to work at midnight, I think it's great because I, for me, I am more productive at night. But try try to find some sweet slots where you can Okay, your mind and know Where, where, when are you working? And where you are just in your house?

Tim Bourguignon 31:38
Yeah, that's interesting problem. And have you have you tried working outside of your house or in your co working space or in a cafe or something like this?

Ignacio Anaya 31:47
Yes, I try to work in cafes, what was really uncomfortable for me, during my house, I have my desk with my side of the screen with my, you know, all the keyboard, I need work in starbug. It's something that I hate. I can't understand how people can come work there every day. I mean, it's something that you can, you may do it when I travel maybe one day, but it can set eight hours in a cafe. But we're space our thing. Right now. For example, for example, me and my team are meeting twice a week in a cool space, and it's very close to my house. So I don't need to write. And I like I really like that it's a good balance, you know, maybe three days at home to the base of the workspace or for four days of common space, then it will advise to if you're going to go to a workplace that sometimes it's expensive, or sometimes the company is not willing to pay that. So understand that. But if you have the chance, it's a good recommendation, because you will interact with people you will meet. Well, I have some some co workset co workers working Argentina so we can interact each other. We can go to take lunch, it's kind of teambuilding too. But it's good for your mind to, you know, to get out do something different. Try to take you out from your house.

Tim Bourguignon 33:24
Absolutely. I can relate to this. I've, I've unfortunately chosen the wrong path and doing coaching right now. And that's not really something you can do. Okay. But that's probably the only the only drawback of doing coaching. Otherwise, I love it. And I wouldn't change for anything, but but not being able to work remotely. So that's something I regret. I can relate to all this. But there's Nice, nice advices. And if you had one advice that you could give a junior developer coming out of university right now what what would that be?

Ignacio Anaya 34:08
Well, I think

Ignacio Anaya 34:11
first of all, at least in my experience, I was like the pressure to finish the college and you know, go to the college and university is the only source of through where you should go there to get the title. Just do that if you want, okay, university is not the only place where you can learn, especially programming, internet, it's plenty of resources and free resources or are not as expensive resources as a university. So, of course, university is good. I am not saying that, but it's not the only way to pay for them. So just do it if you want. If not, you can find different ways to learn, especially related to computer programming in my case What I didn't like about universities that had really clear that I want to be a computer programmer, I want to go. So I didn't want to learn. I know Sophie or economics or teenagers that you have in, at least in Argentina, and Ashanti in universities. The second thing is that you it's like, don't stop learning. Okay? There are always things that you, you will need to learn everything everyday. So, prepare yourself to learn new things every day. It's like, it's crazy, or it's hard to explain. But what it is that at the beginning, you need to learn how to learn, this is the most important thing I consider for this career. And you need to, you need to push yourself, you don't need to work extra time, you don't need to pressure yourself, but you need to spend some times computer programming something possible. It's, it's not easy to, but it's possible for everyone. Of course, there are more skilled people that maybe work in know, in NASA, but there are a lot of different program, there are a lot of different paths for each programmer. So anyone could work or could work as a developer. So you just need to be willing to learn, and, you know, dedicate yourself some hours a day, doing some stuff, contributing to open source, participating communities. Those are all the things that Amy skis on me the opportunity to became the developer that I am today. And this is important, for me is something it's probably not the only way but it's something that that worked for me. And I think would work for for persons. Of course, all of us are different and have different. You learning cures, so don't get frustrated you if you spend time reverse these kind of are they in that you do became an expert in something you need to work or do something for 2000 or something like that hours, I am not sure if you need to spend that kind of hours. But of course, if you want to begin putting something unique practice in every aspect of life. So just practice as learners as we just be enthusiasts and, you know, became an active member of unities of open source. Everything that gives you the chance to meet to meet new people to do networking, to share experiences to teach, I think three important to teach something that I want to say again, but if you want to teach something, you need to really know how to do it. So it's a great thing to learn new things. I don't know that it's an things that I did. And this is what I recommend to people to do. Thank you. Great tips.

Tim Bourguignon 38:34
Thank you very much. Thank you, we essentially already reached the end of our time box. Um, what is on your plate? In the next in the near future? What do you have coming up?

Ignacio Anaya 38:50

Ignacio Anaya 38:53
it's slowly moved up authentic, most of the same things that I'm doing now, I would like to participate in it or to keep participating in conferences, but why not I am trying to change the topics and talking about when I start talking in conferences I I talk a lot about recent years and things related to VCs. Right now then, more about security authentication, and I will give some talks about blockchain aetherium. So my idea is to keep doing talks and to keep participating, but try to expand the things that are the topics I am talking about. I would really like to write a book to find to find the way to do it. I have some conversations with with some companies to that. It's probably something that I would like to do very next year. And of course, keep teaching. I don't know if I already mentioned that. But I like to teach, you know, to companies or I made some free workshops to, we have a great community here in Argentina about mentoring and teaching new skills about programming. So there are like monthly workshops where you can teach to people usually Yes, angular react, or blockchain or you know, that kind of stuff. So I will probably try to contribute or to create some worship for next year. So, encourage people to to learn new things, or to get their first steps in programming, programming.

Tim Bourguignon 40:44
What would you do the best way to, to follow what you're doing or get in touch with you?

Ignacio Anaya 40:51
Oh, I am an active user, either user, so you can reach me there. My my Twitter includes I, a, and a quite a slide. My first, the first thing we'll find name on the first letter of my name, and my last name and my year of birth. And you can reach me there, I have a website that it's basically in Twitter and instagramming, whatever social network, you can find that Twitter with that handle that it's again, I had a white 889. And I haven't worked side with that name, too. So if you want to reach me there, if you have questions or suggestions, you have something in mind, or something that I can I can help just write me an email or IDM or no, I am willing to help you if I can.

Tim Bourguignon 41:54
Cool. I hope the listeners will take you up on the offer. Well, thank you very much. This is really, really interesting to to follow your story and see how you came to being a developer presenter and so active in the community. Thank you very much.

Ignacio Anaya 42:13
Okay, thank you Dean was said before was really great to have a chance to speak with you. And I hope that this helped to another, you know, developers that are giving her a he's a first steps or not. I would like that these are people

Tim Bourguignon 42:34
I show you hope so do and this has been another episode of developer's journey. We'll see each other in two weeks. Bye. Dear listeners, if you haven't subscribed yet, you can find this podcast and iTunes, Google music, Stitcher, Spotify, and much more. Head over to www dot journey dot info. To read the show notes. find all the links mentioned during the episode. And of course, links to the podcast on all these platforms. Don't miss the next developer's journey story by subscribing to the podcast with the app of your choice right now. And if you like what we do, please rate the podcast, write a comment on those platforms, and promote the podcast and social media. This really helps fellow developers discover the podcast and do fantastic journeys. Thank you